Life changing! Although he refused to read her book, a respected Mormon scholar named J. Reuben Clark asked the Deseret News to publish his long review of No Man Knows My History. I am war weary defending truths that just dont appear true anymore. I have that info direct from Mac himself. Why didnt the Lord reveal to the prophet that the documents were forged? [9] When it became rumored that Metcalfe had lost his belief in the historical claims of the LDS Church, Christensen terminated the project and fired Metcalfe. Im not sure who made this comment, (I think that it was on another thread),But it went something like thisBased upon the bretherns actions regarding the Salamander letter, The LDS leadership thought that Mark Hofmann was telling the truth and that Joseph Smith was the fraud. I remember one time a BYU professor handed me a long quote to read out loud to the class when I walked in and I almost had the first major public panic attack of my life. Or at least, Lets Take this Puppy Down.. So, considering all that they had been through, when Mark was named a suspect, Brent didnt even think twice before defending his friend on television. And I went through a very long phase of just wishing that I had never been born. See the next John Whitmer Historical Association Journal for one of my essays. Brent, thanks so much for sharing your tender moments as well. Other early-19thC religionists were even more literal in their descriptions. Part 1 of the interview stuck much closer to home for me. Metcalfe (ed. Thank you, I didnt know about that info. I do remember after my baptismal interview having a strong feeling of love and admiration for him because someone so respected thought I was special too. A question for Brent, What are your thoughts on your research of the book of Abraham? Just curious if there is a link that has information about what they discovered and why they were ex'd or disparaged. New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865608559/BYU-professor-speaks-on-unnoticed-assumptions-about-the-Book-of-Abraham.html. Don't miss. This is one that definately left me wanting more. I just got done reading the book Mormon murders. Daniel Kahneman speaks in terms of efficient Thinking Fast biases that unconsciously deploy the WYSIATI (What-You-See-Is-All-There-Is) heuristic, which has proved itself sufficiently satisficing for selection. The Book of Abraham? document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. I could read fine in private but the social damage was done and anxiety overwhelmed me every time. All it is is a continuation of the pain, Brent further added. She has become the matron saint of Mormon studies (that's a promotion from her previous role as the den mother of Mormon studies). Ive always wondered why the most ardently orthodox and pious seem to have the least faith in the divinity and omnipotence of the Lords plan. Yes! [7] The LDS Church fired Brigham Young University professor David Wright for his contribution to the volume, and excommunicated both Wright and Metcalfe shortly thereafter. If Catholicism were ultimately true, for example, then in the final accounting its dogmatic claims would not be hamstringing- they would serve as a clarifying lens through which to analyze historical questions, a lens which helps the believing scholar from wasting his time investigating a false path. It is those moments of intimacy that really help me connect to the humanity of the interviewee. [1], In the early 1980s, Metcalfe contributed to the Seventh East Press and Sunstone, while at the same time worked as a security guard at the Church Office Building of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). Signature Books. Thanks for this podcast! Thanks Brent for your sincerity, honesty and pleasant demeanor in which you talk about these things. [9] According to Metcalfe, he had written a letter to LDS Church leader Gordon B. Hinckley, disputing the grounds for his termination. Netflixs Murder Among the Mormons is a limited series that profiles the exploits of Mark Hofmann, who planned and executed a deadly event in Salt Lake City, Utah, that left the Latter-day Saints Church shaken to its very core. Mark Metcalfe Project Manager - Heavy Lift Division at Western Mechanical Electrical Millwright Services Ltd. Kitchener, Ontario, Canada 500+ connections Since you worked for Steven Christensen, could you shed any light on the main reason why Steven purchased documents from Hoffman was it just to donate documents to the church? Azerbaijan's Jabrayil Hasanov in action against The USA's Brent Metcalf. After that day I moved to the back of the class and felt like the only straight A student retard at BYU. It was so amazing to hear another person explain nearly my identical experience. The name sounds so familiar (I was a Wandsworth baptism as a teenager in 77). Im curious who is singing Lead Kindly Light in this its beautiful. Every metric you can imagine points to the same conclusion: from Paul VI forward, Catholicism has gone into deep crisis. Brent Lee Metcalfe's Assumptions and Methodologies Reviewed by William 1. My examples are numerous and heart breaking. Brent Metcalf of the USA defeats Franklin Maren of Cuba to win Gold in the Men's 65kg Freestyle Final during the Toronto 2015 Pan Am Games at the. Salamander: The story of the Mormon forgery murders. Im sure there is a very good possibility that COB personnel would have been more suspect of Jerald, and any information he offered, than Hofmann. This one is up there with the best. All this transpired in the 1980s, just around the time Mark Hofmann made his name in the community as a renowned book and document dealer. In fact, it may just be possible that I stood right next to Brent during our official kick off meeting, when Elbert invited his brother Lyle to give us all a magic show. All rights reserved. Hi, was wondering if Brent is still available to respond to my train of thought above? Sandra was criticized by some Mormon Stories listeners for not being as critical of Christianity as she was of Mormonism. I think that the group is called FIRM, lead by Rod Meldrum, Jake Hilton, and Wayne May. All rights reserved. My epiphany also came suddenly, while driving, followed by a massive emotional experience. Is it paramount to understand all of these religious histories and come to terms with them or, Brant for people like you and me, would it be better to turn our talents toward uncovering and deciphering Gobekli Tepe, a stone temple complex built 12,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age in Turkey, built by the Watchers of the Book of Enoch and the Anunnaki gods of Sumerian tradition? Little trace of Morison survives for much of the early 1540s, but it is clear that he built up his landed base and attached himself to . Please share your feeling about this observation as well, and how this may affect future missionary work, growth of the church and most importantly the individual peace of mind of its members. John and I recorded an additional four hours (till 1 AM). Until Vatican II, many scholars felt hamstrung by the churchs dogma on the Bible and related theological issues. Do as I say and not as I do. This was something I surmised most of my adult life. This is one of my all-time favorites. In 1539 he was elected as an MP for the rst time and was appointed to serve in the King's Privy Chamber. 2 Introduction at court. LDS was newly brought to her by a missionary before me. John Dehlin Faces Excommunication. It was awful so stressful. by Brent Metcalfe November 24, 2014 14 Comments Jan Shipps is the perfect inaugural interview for the Mormon Studies podcast. A member of the LDS Church reports he was excommunicated for apostasy on February 2nd, 2013. On my mission in England I met a older, wise non LDS woman very knowledgeable on esoteric and metaphysics teachings. brent metcalfe excommunicated. Very informative. Thank You for contributing your experiences with us all I am curious this morning about the possibility of any reports during the time JS says he had his First Vision, that were published in local newspapers, town Crier printings? Interested to hear about your mission, did you serve in Wandsworth at all? 515-294-6532. The gift of your ADHD shines. What advice does Brent have for aspiring Mormon historians? Did John take the tapes home to show his wife? Powered by WordPress.com VIP. Is there going to be a part 3? During my 7779 mission I served in two London areas, living first in Kilburn Park and later in Wimbledon. Brent Metcalf is entering his fifth season as a full-time assistant coach on Iowa State's wrestling staff. I do not have that ability as I actually changed an Economics major when I took my first accounting class. And now, as per reports, Brent Metcalfe has been able to construct a healthy and happy life for himself outside of Mormonism, where he can continue to work as an independent scholar and technical editor without any issues or restrictions. Hearing Brent break down the Hoffman timeline and story was amazing. I felt like somehow I was responsible for what had happened. Thanks for the clarification. Do you still believe in God, and what type of God? What did they accomplish by kicking any of you out? But Brent seems to do just the opposite. It all depends on the depth of study one does. And a small footnote: Many of these original founders had been part of an on-campus group, called the Open Door Club. All of these documents are available on the Joseph Smith Papers Project website. Metcalfe believed that his firing was because of a few people in church leadership who perceived him as a threat, even though he viewed his own work as apologetic and not scholarly. location 502, 899, 5027 of 9578, Last edited on 26 December 2022, at 05:30, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, "The LDS intellectual community and church leadership: A contemporary chronology", BOOK OF MORMON SCHOLARS UNLEASH SALVO OF BARBS, "MAPPING BOOK OF MORMON HISTORICITY DEBATESPART I", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brent_Lee_Metcalfe&oldid=1129585083, This page was last edited on 26 December 2022, at 05:30. It also struck me that Brent in some ways represents the inverse of Sandra Tanner. In Episode 497, Brent Metcalfe shares an interesting fact that when Steve Christensen was called to be a Bishop that he told his Stake President that he would never excommunicate a member of his ward and if that was a problem that he wouldnt accept the calling. If you hadnt been excommunicated would you still be a member today? But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. Great interview. I have heard metaphysics mentioned in one of the interviews (I think it was the one on post declaration polygamy). Fixed: Release in which this issue/RFE has been fixed.The release containing this fix may be available for download as an Early Access Release or a General Availability Release. Brent Metcalfe. Thanks, John and Brent! What was the arrangement and the special business relationship Steven had with the Church in this regard? Brent did a marvelous job of creating a context by which these events took place. I would include many of the arguments given by the critics as well. Metcalfe subsequently resigned from the Seventh East Press and told Sunstone that he would no longer write for them. My mind was calm and at peace with God through the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world. Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: He knew forger and bomber Mark Hofmann personally. What historical issues does he think are most worthy of exploration, and how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources? Steven Christensen (son of Mr. Mac), one of Mark Hofmanns victims. He was basically threatening his entire existence. (paraphrased and likely not the actual quote from Murder Among the Mormons, Netflix documentary). Thanks again Brent, no wonder you have had the experience you have shared with your faith about God. Perhaps she remembers me, the useless home teacher. I teared up with Brent during that part. Funny how I was taught at BYU The Glory of God is Intelligence I find comfort in knowing I am not alone. Sincerely, Terry. Should have added one more minor thing. This is the part Im most interested in: how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources?. I just saw the Netflix Documentary last night. Sorry for my language, Im not a native English speaker and there is a limit to what I can express in English. What if we are all chasing literal meanings of words such as translation, ages and names while in effect they are meant to have symbolic meaning and by this to explain esoteric principles to insiders. Looking around me, every object was changed, and a bright glory appeared on everything. Ack! Brent Lee Metcalfe is an independent researcher and writer of the Latter Day Saint Movement. Billy Hibbard, for instance, who became a Methodist preacher, recounted: I thought how happy must Jesus Christ have been when he suffered for sinners. But are there any podcasts that go deeper in to Gnostics, esoteric teachings, metaphysics, etc. About a year or so ago when I finally left the church I looked him up to get advice and catch up on old times. Let me be equally clear that I dont believe that the BoAbr is an authentic translation of the papyri he possessed. It is his sixth season overall with the Cyclones after serving as the volunteer assistant for the 2017-18 season. Trent Nelson | The Salt Lake Tribune Dorie Olds is the ex-wife of Mormon bomber Mark Hofmann, who killed two people on Oct. 15, 1985. But once Mormonism got involved, it turned everything upside down. Its likely that our paths could have crossed. According to Metcalfe, he was questioned by LDS Church authorities about his writing for the 7EP and Sunstone was "forced to resign" from his job in April 1983. This has to be one of my top 10 favorite Mormonstories podcasts. Fantastic interviews. Yeah for Signature Books, Matt Christensen, and the internet!!!!! Lynn Jacobs was looked at carefully, I believe Brent Metcalf was looked at somewhat. Cultural Context Preceding the Book of Mormon, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/493__Brent_Metcalfe_Part_1.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/494__Brent_Metcalfe_Part_2.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-497-BrentMetcalfePt3.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-498-BrentMetcalfePt4.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-499-BrentMetcalfePt5.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-499b-BrentMetcalfePt6.mp3, https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm, Signature Books Mormon News, October 1317. 52K views 2 years ago Iowa's Brent Metcalf took down Ohio State's Lance Palmer in a thrilling title bout at 149 pounds in the 2010 NCAA wrestling championships. These other people that had experiences dont seem to have a similar backlash evident. Brent Metcalf, age 31, Kingsport, TN Lived in: Greeneville TN, Elizabethton TN, Louisville TN Relatives: Terri Treadway, Kathy Edens, Douglas Metcalf View full report Brent E Metcalf, age 39, Semmes, AL Lived in: Wilmer AL, Theodore AL Relatives: Beverly Metcalf, Thomas Metcalf, Thomas Metcalf View full report Not everyone who doubted the authenticity of Hofmanns forgeries did so for valid and sound reasons. Its very sunny in London today and Ive listened too all eleven hours of this interview. Dont know who the nuts are that Church Security referred to, but Jerald Tanner probably expressed the most legitimate concerns. brent metcalfe excommunicated. [5][6], According to the Deseret News, the response from the apologetic community was "vitriolic. Im glad the church and BYU tried and I dont blame them for making the attempt to shore up the Book of Mormon. Today the church has suffered too many blows to its claims of certainty to dare to treat its members the way it treated Brent Metcalfe. I remember being troubled by the lack of divine discernment that the brethren have/had. As someone told him, You didnt have a crisis of faith but a Failure of Faith. Arent we to try to gain understanding about life and spirituality? Certainly the reality, was different than the accepted narrative. pigella miraculous ladybug power. Wrestling for coach Roy Hall at Davison High School in Michigan, Metcalf finished as arguably the #1 overall recruit with a career record of 228-0 with . Lance is a Gnostic priest and has written and spoken extensively on the Gnostic and esoteric flavor of Joseph Smiths writings. He also talks about his early forays into Mormon studies. I was nervous that you belonged to the catalyst crowd and relieved to hear your developed belief, or non belief. I like Steve Christensens view on excommunication. Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. We Elders thought this was powerful truth, to compliment the claims of the Book of Mormon, to convince the Jew and Gentile. Im not sure why I would have been hesitant to answer the question during the interview since Ive addressed it numerous timesIll have to go back and listen. On acquiring a PhD, after a year of university, apart from a lack of finances, I quickly noticed that the degree factory isnt a reflection on ones intelligence. I have been thinking nonstop about that analogy, because it is so illustrative of the disorder. So, based on Krakauers shared experience, it sounds like the answer is no, Hofmann doesnt do interviews. What an amazing story that Brent was a participant. It instead discusses the fact that the LDS Church keeps some documents secret. Doxey denied asking about Metcalfe. You are hesitant to answer no evil speaking on what you cant say right ;). Why do you think the church is so fearful, silencing members and burying facts ? Maxine Hanks was also in my ward. Joyce Skabelund October 9, 1938 January 10, 2023 Our mother, grandma, and friend, Joyce Roth Skabelund, 84, departed this life on 10 January 2023. I very much appreciated the beautiful memories and great stories Brent shared about what a remarkable and kind person Steve was. I am still cringing from the realizations about the lack of discernment and the deliberate efforts on the part of the GAs. He was going to have him thrown out of the church. It seems to me that going with what you may think everyone around knows is right (even if it isnt) more easily allows for these kinds of experiences more than realizing there are differences of opinion and thought and then vying for spiritual confirmation. Perhaps it has something to do with the frightening and daunting implications of this inconvenient truth. Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. Its done. [4] He grew up a member of the LDS Church in a devout family, and served a mission for the LDS Church. It is not possible for me to tell how long I remained in that situation, as everything earthly was gone from me for some time. Thanks! I can hardly wait for the rest! The lack of discernment all the way back throughout all the church history The lack of congruence among the leadership with such a claim as who they say is at the head! Reply. Wouldnt it have been more humorous to wait until *after* the issue was mailed out before bringing the Metcalfe is Butthead acrostic to the attention of FARMS authorities? Reminds me of the Mormon interpretation of Amos 3:7 (Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets). In these two episodes we discuss: The aftermath of the Mark Hofmann bombings, and Brent's excommunication for his research into the Book of Mormon, and. Ive known many of Brents views (his liking Raymond Brown, etc.) Why are they so adamant about excommunicating someone who has a different opinion than they do? Brent's review of challenges to traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. Will there be more? You sound like a delightful guy. I always enjoyed our discussions years ago about your love for the Indians in your mission and then your experience doing research with their culture and you feelings towards the Book of Mormon. Youve used it well Brent. When I was on my mission in the early 70s, we were encouraged to show a film called Ancient America Speaks. It would yield some satisfaction to me, if my misery can be a cause of happiness to others; but when I came to the place of prayer, had kneeled down, and closed my eyes, with my hands uplifted toward the heavens, I saw Jesus Christ at the right hand of God looking down upon me, and God the Father looking upon him. What an amazing life Brent! Coming! Listening now- so far, I like the new intro lots! Brenten "Brent" Metcalfe joined NW3C after working in law enforcement for over 13 years. What do you attribute this decline to? Why do you think it is that the church is so fearful of discoveries such as the letters by Mark H ? I understand the church spent large sums of money on BYU professors and private research to bolster the Book of Mormon claims through archeological discoveries.unfortunately they have not found what they had hoped for. He could have never imagined the true extent of Marks crimes, though. I just shook my head to hear the tale of the magisterium giving you the boot, Brent. Brent provided a detailed account of the Mark Hoffman story with a perspective that we seldom hear. And theres no way that you can change it. Well also talk about the recent history of BYUs Maxwell Institute and what he sees in its future and in the future of Mormon apologetics overall. As for the photocopy of Wilford Poulsons parallel, yes, I still have it in one of hundreds of boxes in a storage unit while my house is being remodeled. Cultural Context Preceding the Book of Mormon. Your excommunication reveals more about your accusers than it says about you. (The audio starts in Part 1 around 1:23.55) I did a little research and found a digitized & searchable copy of Elias Smiths autobiography. Im definitely a fan. They buried the Mclellin diaries also.similar thingdidnt like the content. Would that fit the time frame the book is given in? [9][10] His father was the managing director of the Temple Department for the LDS Church. OMAHA, Neb. I especially connected with his comments on ADD. Learn how your comment data is processed. The 7th East Press is one of the great university newspapers; truly the stars aligned when this group got together. 100% CAUCASIAN Our ethnicity data indicates the majority is Caucasian. Lex, you might be interested in the work of Lance Owens. It would have helped me a lot to know I was not alone. They use evidences such as paintings from the 1600s showing native americans using temple signs/tokens, apparent cuneiform writings being discovered that spell Yod Hey Va, and that the Hopewell/Adena Indians are the Nephites/Jaredites. Please let us know. Its the same adhominem from his whole establishment that shows how much they think they own the intellectual world. and our What is your spirtuality/worldview like post-Mormonism? Gary at the time was an up-and-coming star because of his writing skills. It is important that we be critical thinkers and examine the sources providing information, in the same way we would want to know the credentials of someone dispensing medical advice, car repair advice etc. It was torturous turning out essays to suit a particular lecturers preferences in order to gain high marks. But being new to the church and so unacquainted with church matters and such things I was not much help. Its probably best to start over when these things happen, rather than just continuing where you left off. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Thank you for this interview. Thank you as well for your research, especially your work on New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. When?? Honestly, incredible work. If I applied Vatican II to the full breadth of Catholicism, I clearly misspoke (Im not even sure why I would make such a sweeping claim, so I am a tad mystified). And great questions John. sorry, the book is called The Joseph Smith Egyptian Papyri, Not a question but I would very much like to hear Brents response to Kerry Muhlesteins recent FAIRMormon Conference presentation on the Book of Abraham. This podcast inspired me to read the book Mormon Murders. Brent, thank you so much for doing this interview! !Cmoninstead, they were duped arranged for major amounts of $ to buy the letter up,bury it and then lie. We also talk about the concept of translation, Joseph Smiths views on his translations, the traditional apologetic responses concerning the Book of Abraham (Hugh Nibley, John Gee, and Kerry Muhlestein), as well as the LDS Churchs recent essay on the Book of Abraham. In another post Ill comment on the Mark Hoffman affair. Broad topics include my excommunication plus BoMor and BoAbr research. Helping us understand all the ins and outs of this tale throughout the three episodes of this series is Brent Metcalfe, so lets find out more about him, shall we? Liked by Brent Metcalfe Experience Practice Lead - Mergers and Acquisitions/Investment Group and Consultant Backswath Management Sep 2022 - Present6 months Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Seeking New. Would a hypothesis like that hold any water? Well also talk in depth with Brent about how he has been able to construct a healthy and happy life outside of Mormonism. The Book of Abraham was a problem on my mission too, but we had to just ignore that issue, and wait for an answer. I was going to ask the same thing. Brent most recently served with the Information Security/Communication Security with the Wyoming Army National Guard as an IT Specialist. Allegedly, he expressed too much "support" for Denver Snuffer, although by his own account, he would refuse to follow Snuffer if Snuffer had said that the LDS Church had gone totally astray.The individual, who identifies himself as Brent D. Larsen of the Eagle Mountain Utah Stake, discusses the .
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