This guy is a real threat to himself and others. 07-Oct-2022. This kind of thing gets people killed. Or . If you do receive a brasher warning, you should know that you do not have to call the provided telephone straight away, and you are allowed to take some time to think about the situation that has occurred. > Word of caution: the owner of the aircraft is easily found, and plenty of information is out there. The Flight . B734. In the next couple of weeks this is what he can expect: 1 Phone call with FAA to get pilots side of the story. For specific information, you may request a copy of . At the point you're referring to he was a FREAKING IDIOT who SHOULD LOSE HIS CERT violating airspace. For those that don't want to read. For starters, she let him wander into bravo and didn't kick him out until he was well inside. and I think you are either that rude pilot or his wife. (https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N731NR). Secure .gov websites use HTTPS To cross LAS B airspace to get to HND is To cross LAS B airspace to get to HND is beyond my ability to grasp. Good on you for being anti-US and pro-mask and anti-Vegas, but not in a discussion that has nothing to do with that, smart-guy. Now he may have requested clearance BUT requesting clearance and being granted clearance are two different things. Laws don't matter anymore. Shesa credit to the profession. I thought I was cleared, I have an ill 6 year old on board. That's movie crap. We will leave some of the most common violations below for you to read about. Or . But you'd think that someone displaying this much attitude and disrespect for critical rules would have shown his true colors and been denied a license much earlier. IFR Deviations - This is the most common of violations that happens the . It was quite a [emailprotected]## show. This pilot penatrated that airspace at what appears to have been approximately 4800. - refusing to take down a number because "busy flying" Have you ever said anything nasty to somebody else on the ground or anywhere? Continuing into class Bravo airspace without a clearance and then flying right thru the active ILS approach to a major airport is a huge problem. Is there any way you can vector me through? Making excuses for people gets others killed. Review: EgyptAir Lounge Cairo Airport (CAI). In aviation, Bravo airspace or Class B space is a zone around some of the busiest airports that no plane or helicopter is allowed to enter without permission. I fly in the busy Chicago airspace as a private pilot and the vast majority of Private pilots are as professional as the air transport pilots, and are often much less complacent in and around the class B and class C airspace. . Looks like we found the co-owner of Wife Approved, LLC. I almost always fly IFR. - file an IFR (instrument flight rules) flight plan that gives you the same priority as airline traffic. The information contained in this record should be the most current Airworthiness information available in the historical aircraft record. I noticed a typo "pilot deviation" should be of course "pilot deviation". You should be ashamed. This may come as a shock to you, but us general aviation Cesena (sic) clowns have as much right to use the airspace as any commercial operation. I was the 16yo kid working the desk when his #2 instructor sent a private student off on his long cross country and controlled airspace solo flight he went to lunch. She is going to give him the number when he's ready. If youre having medical issues or youre feeling unwell youre not supposed to be in command of an aircaft. This brasher warning is intended to provide the involved flight crew with the opportunity to make note of the incident that has taken place and gather their thoughts before it is discussed. Double that. He's going to find it hard for anyone to swallow his excuses. It seems like the pilot was intent on entering Bravo with or without permission. He busted that test and they pulled his ticket. A lock ( LockA locked padlock ) or https:// means youve safely connected to the .gov website. Federal Aviation Administration This is usually in the following format: (Aircraft identification) POSSIBLE PILOT DEVIATION, ADVISE YOU CONTACT (facility) AT (telephone number). N1NR greeted LAS with standard communication and LAS responded with standard information that N1NR would need for their arrival at Henderson airport. Official websites use .govA .gov website belongs to an official government organization in the United States. It's not just the danger of him putting his plane where he shouldn't have been--there is the addition of the energy spent dealing with him (multiple radio calls taking time away from other tasks, plus building frustration--controllers are human too, and this stuff can really foul your day). Ive dealt the entering class B many times. Next morning he called student and flew with him back to FSD did 3 practice approaches with touch and go with the last being a full stop. Its about attitude, and my only (very generous) defense of this pilots terrible attitude is that all of us are more tense and reactive these days with the covid pandemic, elections, riots, BLM, and other socio-political upheavals were dealing with globally. LAS: "N1NR, possible pilot deviation, advise to contact Las Vegas approach. Harrison Ford is an accomplished pilot that made the same sort of mistake that many Commercial ATP pilots have made setting up for the wrong runway or taxiway etc. I'm not so sure she would know how to "buy a clue"!? Word of caution: the owner of the aircraft is easily found, and plenty of information is out there. If you are training to be a pilot, or simply have an interest in the industry, a phrase that you might have come across is pilot deviation. There's no stick up anyone's ass here just concerned people who want to ensure the people who trust us to get them to point B are safe. Karen Mosley apparetly is clueless about aviation. In fact, I encourage that. What would the discussion be today if there had been a midair collision like the one in San Diego in 1979 with the PSA 727 and a Cessna? Sort it out on the ground, or declare an emergency: pilot is an ass. Thank you.Respectfully,Geneva LaingManagement and Program Analyst, Management & Administrative Support Team, AJV-W640, Northwest Mountain Regional OfficeATO Western Service CenterResource Management Group2200 S. 216th St., 3rd Floor, 3N-458Des Moines, WA 98198Office: 206-231-3337Geneva.Laing@faa.gov, [Your new Mission Support Services Logo! He could have declared, he could have said he has a medical emergency, heck he could have said all sorts of things. But I'd recommend against posting it, even if that person turns out to be the idiot in question. BTW to the ATC controller who explained workload issues during handoff - thank you!! Hey not fair to say that to PIA. That's the whole point of talking to you.". The overall outcome will depend on the situation in question and the consequences of the incident. If N1NR had requested clearance, ATC would have responded with clearance or denial and N1NR would have to confirm what was said. I wonder if they're aware of how much exposure this has in the pilot community. They also rechecked the examiner who tested him on his private he got suspended for a short time and had to recheck as a examiner. I was a center controller and am now retired. At the end, it seems like there was at least one transmission we didn't hear where this pilot was giving "his side of the story" to Henderson Ground, hence that controller apologizing to him. This guy make me sick!!! Without that you cannot enter class B airspace. Penalties, possibly, but he claesrlrx requested class B and was blown off "Nobody gives a f*. If he had a sick passenger he should have explained the situation to ATC better or at all. Learn more. Get the stick out of your asses. The wheels of justice grind slowly but they do grind - Ken White (a lawyer and a good one). Certainly, the other person on frequency broke the rules by transmitting directly to the pilot, but that was defensible and measured: the pilot had severely degraded situational awareness that was imperiling the safe operation of his aircraft. Im flying.. Humans make mistakes sometimes its not a reason to bully somebody. For a bit of background Bravo airspace or Class B airspace is the term for the airspace around the busiest airports in the country. Is there an issue? Thanks to anyone who knows. I wish there was a portal where we could interject and tell the FAA to shove one up this guy's six. She didn't offer a heading or instruction to resolve the issue. Sincerely,Annjanette CumminsNational FOIA Coordinator for ANM, AAL & AWP RegionsFOIA Program Management Branch, AFN-400(206) 231-2034[AFN3_SignatureImage_2a]. Typically, as tower, I don't care about the details, I've got stuff to do. This guy intentionally violated it, then took up ATC's time fighting about it. Maybe, just maybe this controller was playing her Bravo authority a little too far? He did not damage anybody. Both pilot and atc handled the situation poorly. Don't get what you want, "burn down the system.". Although VASAviation transcribed it as "you're being that," it sounded to me more like this pilot started to retort with, "YOU'RE being an ass--", then caught himself and said, "That is not appropriate language.". "N731NR (again, whining): "I requested Bravo clearance about 15 miles ago. There is a letter stating the request was denied because of an ongoing investigation. When you have 2 F-16s or 2 F-15s escorting you that should bring sense into your head faster than having the nerve to argue. Mistakes happen. I'll give you the number when you're ready to copy." . The second LAS TRACON told him to exit Bravo he should have done the max-bank 180 his aircraft and his passenger(s) and he is comfortable with and exited Bravo. Answer (1 of 8): Forgive me, but I have a tendency to twist ambiguous questions like this. Pilot: Ive asked for clearance multiple times.ATC: N1NR, I told you to remain outside the Bravo.ATC: N1NR, possible pilot deviation, advise to contact Las Vegas approach. There's many, many reason why a plane is not allowed into Bravo space. ALL pilots know you have to hear the magic words, Cleared into Brovo. The pilot of N731NR is a jerk, as well as an unsafe pilot that should not be flying. Always IFR but I still We all know the pilot was wrong but. maybe he's tired of the attitude of that particular class bravo. Washington, DC 20591 These guys & women keep 10-20 balls in the air constantly..you think you can do better?? Either way, whether medical or psychological, the solution is the same - he shouldnt have a license. Anything that may seem like a clearance but does not resemble those exact words is not a clearance. The compilation is based on data from the agency's Enforcement Information System (EIS). If an ATC clearance has been obtained, there is no pilot that is allowed to deviate from the given clearance unless an amended clearance has been obtained, there is an emergency, or the deviation is in response to an air traffic alert and collision avoidance system resolution advisory. He was the one that escalated the situation to where the ATC got flustered/put off by his response. Thats the whole point of talking to you.ATC: You have to have a Bravo clearance. Maybe, just maybe this controller was playing her Bravo authority a little too far? PS: The trauma was from being hit with luggage that fell out of the overhead upon disembarking. Your feedback is important in helping us keep our community safe. Everything is on tape. Then landed on the beach. We have your student at the local FBO, and one of my people has the keys. This letter acknowledges receipt of your FOIA request dated May 27, 2020, regarding any accident, investigation, pilot deviation reports, legal enforcement actions, or FSDO records, regarding a possible pivot deviation on June 20, 2020 where N731NR may have entered Bravo airspace without clearance. Or the one over Cerritos in 1986?". Keep up the anti-mask bs. Pilot deviation is when the actions of the pilot result in the violation of a Federal Aviation Regulation or a North American Aerospace Defense Command Air Defense Identification Zone tolerance. What a name for a company! U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Aviation Administration 800 Independence Avenue, SW Washington, DC 20591 1-866-TELL-FAA (1-866-835-5322) N731NR (still whining): "I've asked for clearance multiple times. My father was an Air Traffic Controller when the accident happened over San Diego in 1979 (not the one on duty when the accident occurred) so I know just as much about the history of this airspace as you claim to know, maybe even more. ATC should have called the Airforce on him. "This guy might just be the most negligent pilot ever in terms of how he ignores instructions." But generally, we want what is best (safest as well as most enjoyable) for the users. Bravo airspace, like Ben said, is the airspace around major airports in the country. 731NR | Pilots of America Home Forums Controlled Airspace Flight Following 731NR Discussion in ' Flight Following ' started by WWFeldman, Oct 29, 2020 . Commercial Pilot I'm without reason or belief to know why you lack the ability to be surprised. Student - he did get his private after 3 more months of practice. The Cessna P210N stall speed is 67 knots. Really when you hit "submit" you should have not. Uncharacteristic behavior is often one of the first indicators of an underlying problem. entering airspace without authorization). Outside of banner ads published through the Boarding Area network, this compensation does not impact how and where products appear on this site. Want the latest investigative and FOIA news? Time for this jerk to buy a ticket on Southwest and shut up. What else could you expect? In this case, N1NR is not landing at Las Vegas but at a different airport and is just passing through the area. I'm a commercial pilot and CFII. It's hard to begin to defend such irrational and reckless behavior. You don't insist you didn't make a mistake. Where do I go on the Net to get ATC chatter at RDU? To break down the exchange, the air traffic controller orders the aircraft to leave the Bravo airspace and pilot whines and refuses because he's already in the airspace. Maybe follow-up later with a phone call to make sure they knew it was entirely unintentional, you immediately corrected the error, and that safety is paramount. To all the negative comments we did not hear previous communication. This pilot penatrated that airspace at what appears to have been approximately 4800. The guy should be grounded for a nice long while. > Why am I not surprised this happened in Vegas, where theyre apparently allergic to rules. Yes humans make mistakes, and that is why aviation has the strictest protocols outside the nuclear industry. Let the appropriate agency (the FAA) handle this. He did not damage anybody. Ah, Karen. Please provide this information by COB, on Friday July 17, 2020, or we will go with the last known requestor from MuckRock.com, who we are showing as Matthew Phelan. It seems like the pilot was intent on entering Bravo with or without permission. Reminds me of center frequencies ignoring calls from VFR aircraft. (at least formally) The company is owned by Jeff Wachner, a real estate agent in Southern California. Pull that @$$holes license and give him a huge fine. Ill give you the number when youre ready to copy.Pilot: Im not ready to copy. Time that controller needed for other pilots who HAD to be in the Class B. I can't believe anyone would defend his behavior Is it that hard to skirt around or over it? Some of the penalties of pilot deviation can be no action, a warning notice or letter of correction, certificate suspension, civil penalties, retraining, and even certificate revocation. VFR altitude adjustable to an incorrect barometric pressure of 200'. I'm a Retired LAS Controller. What's the big deal? @Francis Bagbey Plus..help us if weather becomes a problem, as it did yesterday..with vectors around threatening weather. The requirements for us to enter Bravo airspace are spelled out with extreme clarity in the FARs; this one dickhead decided to ignore those requirements. Second, yes, people make mistakes, and when someone tells you "Hey you made a mistake here's Karen: In other words, his head was so far up his ass Student name just called ATC, skipped approach control called the tower directly when he was on a short final for FSD advised his name and I'm coming in. Time that controller needed for other pilots who HAD to be in the Class B. I can't believe anyone would defend his behavior Is it that hard to skirt around or over it? Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. She kept phoning her father, a MD in LA and complaining about her mistreatment and threatening everybody with lawsuits. He did request a clearance. How hard would it be to just clear him through? In over 30 years of flying, I have sat and listened to amateur pilots give ATC professionals a load of sh*#. I didn't hear anything that I didn't find out of line. People get frustrated in the air just like they do in cars and dont get their license suspended. The pilot will most likely face a license suspension and other penalties. WWFeldman Pre-takeoff checklist Joined: Nov 11, 2019 Messages: 107 Display name: WWFeldman I'm sure we all remember our favorite bravo buster. Otherwise he'll have his license yanked in *very* short order. If you read what I wrote with an open mind and still think I have a stick up my ass, go read up on Kobe Bryant the basketball legend no longer with us because someone buckaroo'd it. Not buying the sick daughter excuse. You'd be surprised how many Pilots act like they are the only plane an ATC is working even tho she is nonstop talking sequencing Arrivals to one of the top 5 busiest airports in the USA!!! "N731NR (whining): "I'm inside"LAS: "You were not given a clearance through the Bravo. You can listen along to ATC at liveatc.net and search for RDU in the upper left. I'm flying." In aviation terms regarding "pilot deviation", the controller is telling the pilot that he is being reported, and there will be an investigation by the FAA. Alan BillingsFOIA Business AnalystFederal Aviation Administration AFN-400(O) 202-267-6352alan.billings@faa.gov, Subject: RE: Freedom of Information Act Request: FAA records for N731NR. I suggested they speak with the father and ask him if perhaps, she was a spoiled B. Mistakes happen. Airborne deviations can result when pilots stray from an assigned, heading, altitude, or instrument procedure, or if they penetrate controlled or restricted airspace without ATC clearance. Not a cool move on his part. .. Cookie Notice This notice provides new procedures for investigating pilot deviations (PD), and completing FAA Form 8020-18, Investigation of Pilot Deviation Report by certificate-holding district offices (CHDO), Flight Standards District Offices (FSDO), and certificate management offices (CMO) with oversight of air carrier operators certificated under Keith - THANK YOU for all that you did to ensure the safety of your passengers and your crew! While we do try to list all the best miles and points deals, the site does not include all card companies or credit card offers available in the marketplace. What is more likely is ATC would instruct N1NR around Bravo. I've gotta jump on the bandwagon in wondering "just what the heck 'Karen' was thinking" when she told the 99.9999999% of commentors on this site to get the "sticks out of their asses". 2021.4.14.1400. It is quite apparent that the pilot is well versed in being an a**hole. If N1NR requested clearance but did not hear back from ATC, they would have to repeat the request as they cannot assume what ATC heard; however, it is highly unlikely that even if ATC heard the request they would allow N1NR clearance into Bravo. 2020-007191WS Anonymous (Laing) Invoice.pdf, 2020-007191WS Anonymous (Laing) PDPNR.pdf, Subject: RE: Freedom of Information Act Request #2020-007191. @Coinneach - Im fully aware of their rights, and I do not have to agree with it. Looks like he was below 6000 the whole time. There is zero excuse for wasting ATC's time in a Class B in this age of airliners everywhere. We all know the pilot was wrong but. maybe he's tired of the attitude of that particular class bravo. Interceptions are dangerous and that jet blast and thrust from either twin thrust (F-15) or single thrust (F-16) could put the Cessna into a dangerous condition. (i.e. I dont know what will fix that. She should have vectored him out after he refused. That's a terrible thing to say, that a pilot should lose his license. I don't care where people get frustrated. Part of the perfected status is a complete name, and address from each requestor. You have successfully joined our subscriber list. This guy might just be the most negligent pilot ever in terms of how he ignores instructions. He did not declare a fuel emergency, so go east over Lake Meade, or go west over Red Rocks and stay out of B and get to HND without any issues. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The likelihood of an actual air collision is low due to the training of "most" pilots, but you don't need a guy like this. From: twitter.com/journo_anon Public Records Requester, Subject: Freedom of Information Act Request: FAA records for N731NR. If you are aware that you have made a mistake, and have filled out the necessary reports, then it will be less likely that you will face serious consequences. It should be a few hundred. While working on my instrument rating and flying in and out of Midway airport I heard dozens of Southwest pilots being human, and missing instructions, blowing through airspeed restrictions, among other FAR violations and getting dressed down by ATC when they goofed up.
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